Recent comments from our listeners, including Shine, who has attended many K Drama star meet and greets in Manila. Shine says it’s common for fans to walk up on stage to say hello to stars at the end of these events.
The Hero’s Journey framework, which was researched and popularized by writer Joseph Campbell, who researched thousands of myths, stories and legends from around the world. He came up with what he called the monomyth or the Hero’s Journey, which he says is basically the template for so many of our myths and legends.
How exciting it is to map Kingdom to the Hero’s Journey.
We think the Call to Adventure has happened
The Crown Prince at first tried to refuse the call
Mu Young is clearly his guide
The Crown Prince is being tested; witness the people who died by the arrows of the palace guards
But the Crown Prince is also gaining allies in Seo bi and Young shin
The Crown Prince is also an orphan. We see a lot of orphans in hero’s journey movies and shows: Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Frodo Baggins
In this episode, it seems everyone is headed to Sangju.
How Cho Hak ju had the messenger who delivered his son’s head killed on the spot, which means he killed the messenger. We discuss the origins of the phrase, “don’t shoot the messenger.”
The beacon fires used to alert the country, or bongsu. In Lord of the Rings, there are beacon fires used to alert the Kingdom of Gondor in the event of an attack.
How Cho Hak ju shows the court officials that the king is a monster and proclaims him still alive and still king.
The Crown Prince’s continued evolution. In the previous episode, he was mostly looking out for himself. In this episode, the people are looking to him for what to do next.
The samo, or the hat that the court officials wear when they wear their court attire, or the dallyeong
Kim Sang-ho, the actor who plays Mu Young.
References
Hello dear KdramaChat Ladies! You finally made me watch this series that I have avoided a bit, in spite of loving zombies and haveng been recommended it a lot.
ReplyDeleteI have another question for you though, especially since you are a bit more into Korean Language and culture than me.
I just read an article describing the Korean concept of "Han" meaning a feeling of deep injustice that could be compared to the Swedish melancholy, but which influences society and culture to a much greater degree. The South Korean writer Lee O-young has explained it in the following poetic way: "We translate 'bird song' as 'bird cry' [...] The same bird sounds that Westerners hear as expression of joy, we hear as crying." This can be about the inability to overcome asymmetric power relations and the anger that injustice breeds. Han therefore stretches out in complicated layers, from melancholy and sadness to rage, hatred, revenge and nihilism. A kind of suffering that also includes a will to solve the suffering, but never succeeds. The shock many felt at the violence in "Squid game" is partly explained with Han. One of the "epiphanies" this article brought me is that Kdrama doesn´t hesitate to write sad endings. Unfortunately, a big number of recent series have rather chosen HEA (Happy Ever After) endings instead, even though it is not logical - spoilers below... What do you think about this concept and the possible spoiling of KDrama core values when adapted to globla expectations?
Thanks again! Warm regards from Stockholm
(looking at you, Hotel del Luna, Heartbeat, or My Dearest, even CLOY but "light").
OMG thank you for researching and discussing Han and the sad KDrama endings - I feel honored! And I also watched Kill me Heal me just now, loved it (and I miss Shin Se Gi :-) )
DeleteI see the reviews on Viki long before a show is posted or subtitled, so I feel like me commenting here before listening to the episode is somewhat justified! 🫣
ReplyDeleteExcited for this next episode! I’ve been watching Kingdom with my wife and we are dutifully staying lockstep with your episode releases…. So we are eager to listen to your review of episode 4 so we can watch episode 5 and then wait (what feels like) forever for the next Friday.
Happy Friday! I so appreciate the commentary around the concept in this show about who the real monster is. With episode 4 ending the way that it did, I really felt it! Anyway, now to get the kiddo playing so I can listen to your episode! 😅
Ryan, so excited to hear from you! Thank you to your and your wife for watching and listening! We will take reviews and comments anytime!
DeleteI really enjoyed this episode of Advanced English Lit Chat! As you discussed, Joseph Campbell’s Hero with a Thousand Faces was particularly influential with George Lucas who created Star Wars and very consciously, and almost methodically, followed Campbell’s concept of The Hero’s Journey. I think Campbell even said something to the effect of “George Lucas is the greatest student I ever had.” There’s an entire Bill Moyers show (and book I think) focusing on Lucas and Campbell for those that are interested. I look forward to this podcast discussing Valdimir Propp’s Morphology of the Folktale and Jungian archetypes in the coming weeks! 😉
ReplyDeleteThe idea that many of these “heroes” are orphans is interesting, particularly because orphans are so ubiquitous in K dramas. I think that would be really interesting to explore, particularly in light of the stigma that Korean society has towards orphans and the children of unwed mothers. My initial thought is a character who is an orphan is completely free of the significant typical familial responsibilities and is therefore able to engage in types of behavior and actions that would be problematic for children with parents. If Batman had a Korean mom, she would be constantly harassing him about getting married and having children!
As for the episode itself, I don’t understand why the survivors couldn’t make their way to some nearby island to escape from the zombies. My understanding is that they are somewhere near present-day Busan, which is on the coast and near many islands. Are there really no boats anywhere to be had?! And why aren’t they cutting off sleeping zombie heads during the day?! I’m convinced the mere presence of zombies make people stupid.
As for things back at the palace, it seems like the Joseon Dynasty needs a 25th Amendment! Is anyone keeping Cho Hak-ju in check?! Seems like he can do whatever he pleases, including keeping the King chained up.
I did enjoy the King’s soldiers’ hats with the two feathers. Those were pretty pimp. And my cat enjoyed the soldier’s whistles. So at least there’s that. I am ready to go return to classic K Drama romance where the most horrifying thing is the main character’s mother’s disapproval!
Can we please get Kim Sang-ho some beef pancakes already!!!
Malcolm, it sounds like you're quite the student of the hero's journey! What do YOU think of Kingdom as a hero's journey? We are loving looking at the show through that lens. And yes, George Lucas basically took the hero playbook and used every bit of it and was extremely faithful to it!
DeleteI agree that the people should have been taking care of the zombies during the day. I wonder if it's because there was such a taboo against desecrating bodies. On the other hand, who would want to go near those zombies, even when they're asleep?
Yes, love the hats! And I'm sure the Crown Prince and Mu Young are dying for some beef pancakes! I'm on a low carb diet and I'M dying for some beef pancakes!
What do I think of Kingdom as it relates to Campell’s hero’s journey? Finally, after 30 years, I am called upon to use my degree in philosophy - and it’s on the K Drama Chat comments section! I knew this day would come!
DeleteWell first, you are probably aware, there is a lot of criticism of Campell and his theory of the monomyth. Particularly, his selectivity in the stories and his ethnocentrism. My opinion is that George Lucas and Star Wars had far more influence in popularizing Campell’s theory than Campell’s theory had on George Lucas!
That being said, even if you take Campell’s seventeen stages at face value, I’m not sure the Crown Prince’s journey fits the mold. First, the call to adventure and the refusal of the call don’t really apply. The Prince really didn’t have a choice here. It was either flee the palace and assert his claim to the throne or be killed. I don’t see where has received any supernatural aid (yet) even if he is being confronted by the supernatural. Is Seo Bi the Goddess? Is she the temptress? She’s basically the only woman in the entire show other than the Queen’s consort and she doesn’t really fit the bill of goddess or temptress, unless there’s something unexpected coming. As for a mentor or a helper? There is Mu-yeong, Yeong-shin, and Seo Bi. But none of them are really mentors. Has he undergone trials? Sure. Has he reached apotheosis? Maybe? Will there be an ultimate boon? Probably. But in terms of Kingdom supporting Campell’s self-described monomyth, I’m not so sure. Sounds more like a typical sympathetic plot to me. Just my two cents.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
I was told there would be beef pancakes…..
Malcolm, love the comments and the insights! My thoughts:
Delete* The supernatural aid that Campbell talks about is metaphorical and doesn't have to be truly supernatural. I think Lord Ahn's reputation as a great hero is the outsized or supernatural aid that the Prince will receive.
* I also think Lord Ahn is the guide and mentor. He is the spiritual and moral teacher of the Crown Prince.
* I think Campbell was also speaking metaphorically when he referred to the Woman as Temptress. It was probably a sign of the times to position a woman as the temptress who would try to make the hero abandon his quest. You're right in that I'm not sure we're going to see anyone try to convince the prince to abandon his quest. And Seo bi is definitely not a temptress!
Keep the comments coming! Love it all! And thanks for the TED Talk! Beef pancakes when we get together during KCon next year!
As someone who is married to a LOTR nerd and whose children, at ages five and six watched at least one of the movies a day for six months, I would like to comment. The books are about the horrors of WWI, experienced by Tolkien and others during his service. He liked to write about real things and it seems that the beacons are modeled after ones that warned of the Spanish Armada. And just for a fun fact, the Elvish language is modeled after (an ancient form of, my husband reminds me) Finnish.
ReplyDeleteYou can also look at this through the lens of Aristotle and the tragic hero. The tragic hero is often seen as a flawed individual. His story is shown in three acts: Act One: Opening Narration/Inciting Incident, Second Act: Rising Action, and Third Act: Resolution/Climax. Shakespeare wrote his plays using Roman poet Horace's five act structure: Act One: The Exposition, Act Two: Rising Action, Act Three: The Climax, Act Four: Falling Action, and Act Five: Denouement or Resolution.
I'm about to talk about possibly gross zombie things.
ReplyDeleteThere is some lore regarding zombies, but it often changes unlike other monsters.
Zombies sink/can't swim. Until you are on a boat to a uninhabited island that is full of zombies. It happened in Day of the Dead. Hmm... How did they get there?
I've been thinking both about the baby that was nursing in the village (remember dad asked for extra soup for mom) and the Queen's unborn child. Guess what? Mom can pass on being a zombie! This also happened in Day of the Dead. A pregnant mom got bit, turned into a zombie, then had a zombie baby. I wonder if that village baby turned into one. I think the queen's baby is either going to be a zombie or a girl.
I am also worried about the Queen's bloody sock/shoes that were burned. Can the smoke turn someone into a zombie? I mean, if the servant girl was bitten, saliva from the King would affect the blood.
There are a number of ways that you can turn into a zombie: being bit, dying (Walking Dead), eating zombie soup, and airborne pathogens through medical waste being burned (It also happened in Return of the Living Dead).
Head shots, decapitation, and fire generally kills zombies.
Animal zombies do exist. Train to Busan has the zombie deer in the beginning, and State of Decay 3 (Xbox game) is hinting at them as well.